Laura Milke Garner 0:00
You're listening to a MILKE podcast, we acknowledge the traditional owners of the land of which we operate the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin nation. And with respect to where our collaborators guests and listeners are. We extend our acknowledgement to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander elders past and present.
Patrick Hayes 0:19
Hello, my name is Patrick Hayes, and this is producers in conversation. This podcast is all about a space for producers to discuss share triumphs, experiences and difficulties as we explore the ever elusive question what is a producer Anyway? I've been in this industry for about 10 years now and I'm still not sure I know the answer. Today I'm joined by producer and comedian Kimmie Lovegrove, as we discussed the first few years of her career beginning looking at her first Melbourne International Comedy Festival and also around some of the community complexities of existing in a white male dominated space. Kimmie, would you like to introduce yourself to our listeners before we begin?
Kimmie Lovegrove 1:04
My name is Kimmie Lovegrove. I am a proud Ngarrindjeri woman in South Australia. Living in Melbourne. I run my own business where I produce comedy shows featuring some of Victoria's funniest Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander comedians.
Patrick Hayes 1:25
Awesome. And you had that? You had a wonderful full season at comedy festival just gone? Well, you did the full full season at the Malthouse.
Kimmie Lovegrove 1:36
Yeah, yeah. So that was my first ever kind of like, Comedy Festival, I've, you know, gone to the nationals for deadly funny, but yeah, that was definitely my first like full festival doing comedy.
Patrick Hayes 1:50
Awesome. That's a great kind of standpoint. So you're like very self proclaimed fresh on the scene, taking it all first leave out there. With that in mind, like you're you say that you're like you are a producer that's kind of running your own freelance business, what is your definition of a producer?
Kimmie Lovegrove 2:08
How I would define it is someone who obviously has the love for the art and wants to, you know, put on good shows for not only, you know, their family or their friends, but for anyone that you know, loves to support, support, whatever art form that you are producing. So for myself, because I also do stand up comedy, and I noticed that there wasn't a lot of like, female blak fella producers in Victoria. And so I was like, you know, there needs to be more of us. And I'm more than happy to put my hand up and kind of like show the younger generation that, you know, if you want to put on shows, if you want to do stand up comedy, even if you want to run your business, it is very, very possible. You don't need like, a big fancy degree to do it, even though I have five degrees. Yeah, is that something I'm always kind of talking to young people about whether they be blak fellas or not let you know, if you have a passion, let's kind of like meet up, catch up, and I'll share what I've learned. So that way, you know, you're not kind of like going down the same road that I have, where you know, you've experienced, you know, you haven't had the best experience. And so I kind of like sharing those lessons and, you know, bringing you along with me and kind of helping shape yourself as a producer or comedian or whatever creative and kind of kind of sharing the knowledge in the context that I have. Because it's very hard to be in like the comedy scene, especially as a woman but also as a First Nations person as well. Because it's it
Patrick Hayes 4:06
Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Like the statistics on like, you know, straight white comedians that exists straight white male comedians that are in like the landscape is astronomical compared to like queer female. It definitely POC personal colour for anyone for listeners that don't know that acronym. Yeah, it's a staggering industry to kind of break into especially because it is quite well, I mean, like, there are a lot of opportunities, but there is that kind of gatekeeping I guess sometimes it kind of comes across within festivals, like festival environments within that kind of realm. And yeah, that's a great I haven't actually ever thought of like a producer as that mentoring leader role of kind of taking some other artists under the wings and helping create those points, but that's a really an A beautiful way of articulating the producer as well. So like, you kind of mentioned this in that little conversation of like, why did you become a producer? Was it all kind of driven over? You just wanted to be that example. Put that out into the world or?
Kimmie Lovegrove 5:14
um, well, I've always, like created opportunities from whatever gap that I've seen, I've been able to do that was when I was studying at RMIT. And I noticed that there wasn't any kind of student leadership roles where, you know, the voices of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander students needed to be heard. So I created a role within the Aboriginal kind of like, students support unit. And so when I started doing comedy, I always like to see like, where are the black fellas are at where's that support, where, what's the best way I can get my foot in the door. And because I had so much trouble trying to find a black fella producer or even a producer that gets my story where I don't have to kind of like change my personality, to fit the kind of like broader Australian kind of a perception of what a comedian is or what an Aboriginal comedian is. And so after, you know, being a part of deadly funny, and seeing how Wes Snelling I'm pretty sure that's how you say his last name. He said, after I was kind of like watching how he produced the deadly funny shows. I was, I was like, you know, I completely support and respect Where's and kind of like, I've kind of structured my shows after kind of like the deadly funding structure because it works like the entire Aboriginal community will come out and support it. And after, whenever I do a deadly funny heat, I'd have people in the community come up to me and ask, well, when are you going to do a show when we need to see more like black fella comedians, Kimmy make it happen. So that's when I worked with like another black fella event business to bring a deadly comedy to Northcote. And after a couple years, you know, I took all those learnings that I had gotten in kind of like the event space and started my own business and made my own networks. And it's just, I've only been running my business for just over a year. And I've done two solo comedy shows, in between locked down and my first festival, and it's just been absolutely amazing. And when people ask, how did you do it? I'm like, I just did it, I didn't think and when I plan my shows out, like I close my eyes, and I can envision like exactly how it's gonna look who's going to be performing in what spot exactly who is going to be performing and, you know, not trying to think too far ahead. Because then when you have high expectations, and then when they're not met, then you know, you feel real shit, which is, you know, another side of being a producer as well that, you know, if you don't hit a certain mark of people come to your show, then you feel like you've failed, when in all reality, if I can get 10 people through the door, then I've sold out a show.
Patrick Hayes 8:30
Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a great, a lot of great stuff to unpack in there. Like I think one of the main things we've talked about in a few of the other episodes, is that kind of like having clear ideas of what is success and what isn't success because sometimes people have this different views and like especially if you're in a team, you might have different aspects of the team and like if someone wants to sell out show have hundreds and hundreds of tickets, but someone else is actually just like experimenting with some new material, comedy, all that stuff. So it's a really, some really great points. And also Yeah, what amazing achievement of tackling all that stuff in your first year. That's a great haul and yeah, absolutely wonderful. Because you mentioned that you've had you have five degrees are any of them in like event management or anything like that? Are they all just in different scatter scattershot.
Kimmie Lovegrove 9:20
Say they're all in communication, creative writing, and business great. And I've just finished a certificate for and becoming a celebrant, so being able to marry people, which is I've only been told that there's another comedian in either Australia or Victoria, that is a celebrant as well. I'm ready to like just start marrying people but yeh the marriage law in Australia is very interesting. It's very interesting.
Patrick Hayes 9:56
Yeah, that's that's probably a whole other podcast. We could dig into the marriage law of Australia. But yeah, so in this kind of radical year of taking on producing and your own business, what are even before that really was there a moment where you suddenly went, I feel like I have become a producer, like I can finally call myself a producer,
Kimmie Lovegrove 10:18
it would be my first kind of like, show away from working with the other black fella event business where it was just, it was my name was like, on like the poster. It was because it was at Comedy Republic and I, at the time, I didn't realise, like how much of a big deal it was, until I had done a show there at the start of last year, and I was in Adelaide, just you know, relaxing. And I had already booked the show, prior to that, at Comedy Republic, and one of my cous and I was sharing with cousin where they consumed like family and friends to go buy tickets. And he showed me a photo of the lineup. And on the lineup, like the headliner was Tom Gleeson. And I started like, having a little fangirl moment, I'm like, this is absolutely crazy. And it wasn't until like after having that experience, and then kind of like taking a step back after my first solo show. At comedy Republic where I'm like, I'm actually a producer, I'm in the same league as some of Australia's like funniest comedians and to, you know, be able to have shows and be recognised. Not only as a producer, but also as a comedian as well is like, it's just mind blowing. And yeah, that was definitely the the kind of like lightbulb moment when I knew that not only was I a full blown producer, but that I'm on my way to, you know, hopefully producing for some of Australia's Funniest comedians.
Patrick Hayes 12:09
Yeah. How like, this isn't a question that we kind of had in the format. But like, how do you feel or juggling that role as being comedian and producer at the same time, because you also, were performing some nights in like the most recent Comedy Festival show that you did all those points? How do you like? Do you feel like that's a difficult thing to balance? Or are you do you find that really empowering to be able to, like, connect your comedy into your producing?
Kimmie Lovegrove 12:36
So everyone that I have that perform with me.x I have a conversation before the show, just kind of asking them, like, what are their expectations coming into it? What do they kind of like, want from me as a producer, and as me as like, their colleague, comedian, friend. So that's a conversation that I'm constantly having with the other comedians that I'm producing. Where, because I'm friends with all of them, kind of, you know, making sure that that line between friendship, and producer doesn't cross and in some cases, like you can't help if your friends are upset, if you, you know, forget to say their name, or you say their name incorrectly. And, you know, that's, it's always going to be a learning experience. Because, obviously, I'm in my first year, and I am going to make mistakes, but to have a open conversation where, you know, it's not like a personal attack is just, you know, something to develop on in the future. And to like, keep note that, you know, that can't happen again, because that will affect, like future possible, like relationships with them as well. So that's something that I'm like constantly listing down, making sure that it's something that I put in my run sheet, and that you know, and in my notes on my phone, if I'm emceeing make sure that's given to the emcee if it's not myself, so I'm in a position where I can actually get other comedians to emcee the night. It doesn't always have to be me. And I prefer that, you know, it's, it's another comedian emceeing because, you know, they get more time on the stage and they're always asking me for more time, and I just want to showcase everyone but when you're doing an hour show you can only you know, I fit in so many people at a time. I'm always getting requests from people that you know, want to either come back to the stage but they don't want to go through deadly funny. So they'll come to me instead of even being asked by like deadly funny alumni, if I know of any like comedy rooms when I'm doing a show next, and if they can get on it as well. So it's just by me wanting to you know, showcase to incredible talent of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people and comedians, it's just, it's just such a massive network. And what I want to kind of do next is to kind of share the skills that I've learned not only as a producer, but as a comedian to share that with the Aboriginal community. So they can think of comedy as a way of telling their story. So yeah,
Patrick Hayes 15:27
I think that's a really interesting standpoint, like a lot of producers that I've talked to when they've started out have often been producers for friends and kind of worked with the friends artists. And that's a very natural progression of what a producer is. But I think that's a really crucial milestone, I think a lot of young and I say young as in, like emerging producers go through is that sometimes that navigation between working with your friends, but then like that separation of work, and friend, I think it's really important to be extremely clear. And like, go, this is a conversation with my work producer hat on, I need to talk to you as a work colleagues right now. And these are the things that I need you to do versus the friendship debate, because I have I have seen a lot of young keeps saying Young, I'm not that old. But like emerging artists and producers, you have that turbulent relationship, because suddenly it becomes like a friendship, debate or fight or anything. I've seen some some friendships thrive in that environment and others burn. And it's, it's just hard. So I think it's always good to really have clear expectations, and you know, have it in an email or something as well just be like, This is what we're doing. This is what you're doing. And we're going to do all this or as you said, like, maybe there is a slip up and someone makes a mistake, which we all do. We all make mistakes. But sometimes when it's a friend pulling you up on that situation, it can feel so much bigger than what it is. And yeah, I think that's a really great start to the kind of that juggling, especially when you are a performer and a producer in that kind of environment as well. I mean, that's a pretty core skill. But what are the other core skills? Do you think a producer needs like when you when you go into projects, what are the main things that you think you're doing and giving to these artists,
Kimmie Lovegrove 17:15
I think reassuring them that they come first. And so when I do, like if I get funding, or if I you know, make some money from ticket sales, I always make sure all my artists are taken care of making sure that they not only feel like physically safe, but culturally safe as well. And at the venues that I have put on shows that no one's felt, you know, racially attacked, they haven't had any issues with the venue. There, there was a time where I did perform at a venue. And they were doing a like minute of silence, because there had been a lot of deaths in the community. And the person at the door and a security guard were like talking very loudly. And so I had to tell them to like, you know, be respectful. And you know, for me, like I don't like confrontation, I try and avoid it in any kind of way. So I'm always kind of doing like potential risks for what could happen during the show before a show or even after the show. That was the only time where that was like a definite big risk. Because you know, that's something I'm always looking out for not only for my artists, but also for those who are attending the show as well that because the majority of them will be black fellas. And I want them to feel safe to come to my shows to come to the venue if they're not familiar with it. And I think for year for this year, because I've done most of my shows either Malthouse or trades hall through Melbourne Fringe. I have never sold out a show more than I did in July this year, which was a special NAIDOC comedy show. And I went like full capacity. And that's never happened to me before. So I was extremely, very, very happy with that. Yeah,
Patrick Hayes 19:19
I mean, for like, from what I've heard from my first nations colleagues, there's like NAIDOC week and then everyone kind of needs like a week off to recover from NAIDOC week because it's event after event after event. Yeah, that's great that that was like at capacity. I can imagine that. Especially as we kind of talked like the comedy field is a bit more of that kind of straight white male dominated area that that can have quite a lot of cultural safety nuances that you need to navigate, especially as the producer and looking after your community as audience and performers. Yeah, that's I can as someone who's I used to work at Melbourne Fringe and work within their programme called Deadly fringe which was like a mentorship. Aren't components and stuff like that. And actually, we've worked a little bit together on a project for RMIT, as well, that had some First Nations cultural . And like, there's so many nuances within that space working within larger organisations that don't always, I guess, you know, they don't have those same cultural instincts as like a mob run producer, or a mob community would have. So that's a really great power that you get to give to your artists, which is amazing. I think I'm also just floored, like, I think I just kind of producing has always been such a major thing where I'm still wrapping my head around it now after like, eight years of doing it, but having this gunho bam, I'm just I'm in awe of that kind of attitude. It's amazing. And loving it. Yeah, that's, um, that's amazing. And you've also just, I should say, you've just launched a show with Melbourne Fringe last like three nights ago, basically, as well. So, we'll, we will what we'll do, we'll keep talking. But um, I'll get the links from Kimmie so listeners, if you are keen to see those shows definitely tag along, and I'll have the links in the bio of the episode that is amazing. Congratulations and Trades Hall amazing to be in the hub with with all of those skills, what like, what is one thing that you struggle with in being a producer? And how do you come like, manage that?
Kimmie Lovegrove 21:15
Think it's having those hard conversations, because as I mentioned before, like I try and avoid confrontation, the best way I can. And for me, when I have a venue manager contacted me before, like during the day, and is telling me, like, informed me of like, some complaints at a venue. And I started freaking out, because the one thing that I'm really good at is maintaining positive relationships with like, stakeholders with clients. So with whoever it may be, and for me, I that was a definite red flag for me. I kept thinking, okay, Kimmie, we're going to have to have this hard conversation with our artists, what? How are we going to kind of frame it where it's not kind of saying to them, you know, you've done a really bad thing, you're off the tour, you're off the show? Yeah. So for me, that was definitely a learning experience hearing, having that, having that conversation with the venue manager, and just making sure that, you know, I will have a conversation with not only that specific artists, but for all the artists. So they're kind of like aware of what their job is, before a show starts, during the show. And after the show, if they're still at the venue that this is the kind of attitude and behaviour that is really kind of like what is required of them. So yeah, that was, I think, how I handled that conversation, I did it to the best of my ability. And I was when I walked away from that conversation with my artists, I didn't feel like that they were going to drop out or that they were never going to work with me again. Like now we'll kind of like make a little joke about it just so it's like, not awkward or anything, but then I'll be serious. Is it okay, let's make sure that, you know, because I was trying to get advice on how to have this conversation from other artists who have been in the entertainment industry longer than I have. One of my friends was telling me to, like, even though if I'm only doing one show, and even if they're not being paid, I still write a contract and putting in, you know, what is required of them what their responsibilities are, and for me, because I've never, like, I've never performed at a festival before. And having that conversation with all my artists, including the guests that they bring that just because we have a drink in our hand and we're still at the venue doesn't mean people aren't watching this, when it's like a International Festival, as First Nations people, we are literally the first people that people will look at the kind of, you know, be at the forefront or kind of like saying, Okay, this is how Black Fellas, you know, at, in a professional sense or something like that. Yeah, so, yeah, that was yeah, it was definitely a really something that, you know, I'm constantly learning just making sure that I know, what is expected of me and kind of relaying that message to my artists as well.
Patrick Hayes 24:30
Yeah. And I think like just to kind of empathise, I think that's like a skill that will be always ongoing, like I've had multiple festivals where I've had to have very difficult conversations with artists sometimes and like I was working a long time ago at like, Brisbane festival like it was the ages at the start of my career. And we had some international artists who were like the they were the gem in the programme kind of vibe. They also liked to plarty and they were just having a ripe old party and just went a bit too party hard in the foyer, and we're doing things. And I was like, this young producer who was trying to be like, Hey, thank you so much. But I need you to not do that. And they were just it was, it's a very it's, it's a hard line. But as I think you've already started to implement those kinds of changes, because as you said, you were having those clear conversations at the start going, this is what we expect, this is what you're doing, which is effectively what you just put in a contract anyway, it's just like outlining those expectations of what's going to happen. And yeah, I think that's a really, there is nothing more heart wrenching as a starting off producer to then have to have that difficult conversation. Because you are, although we are sometimes the amazing people who help organise and bring stuff together. It's that weird, that parental role that we kind of have as well, we have to like slap artists on the wrist and go, What are you doing? Like, come on, we've got to do this stuff. And we got to do this. And but I think that, yeah, very, I could honestly go on so many lists of all the artists I've had to have those conversations with, or even just like other producers, or other workers as well, like, I think the thing that we have to remember sometimes is that we are, we're working with people and people are unpredictable, they have their own stuff, you could even have that conversation with your artist, and then they just have a bad day. And then suddenly, they do something that you know someone on a bad day does. And that can ispiral . Like it's all of those kinds of elements. So I think, yeah, I've been there. For our listeners at home or wherever you're listening to this, you could be listening to it forever. Just Just for context, we're recording this at the start of September, in 2022. I only just say that, because the last three years, everything seems to change month by month. And I think it's just important to say this is what's like we're at this point, probably gave it away when I said that the Melbourne Fringe Festival had launched like three days ago. But still it's kind of a weird environment in Victoria right now, like people, there are still audiences are still kind of coming out of the woodwork and getting back into shows. But you said like you had like NAIDOC Week, like, how are you finding the current climate for shows and producing? And how are you tackling it?
Kimmie Lovegrove 27:17
Um, I think because people are still being cautious because of COVID. And the different other diseases that are coming through people, you know, trying to still be safe and kind of, you know, they want to come along to a show, but they don't want to risk getting sick for whatever reason it may be, and I remember on probably was either my first or second show, I had a couple of people just buy tickets and not physically show up. But they still wanted to show support. Oh, which is which I absolutely love, like, I would have loved them to be there in person, because then they can actually see the show. But I think that's completely fine as well. Like if you really want to go to a show, but you've got to put your health first, that's completely fine. Like I'm open to people like buying a ticket not showing up, or you know, wanting to donate to my business and know they can easily get in contact with me and we can sort something out. I'm very open to that. But yeah, I think slowly and surely, crowds of people will like come forward. And you know, I could be at like 10 tickets sold the day of and then just before the show starts 25 people show up so that's something I noticed at comedy festival as well where I had like maybe five tickets sold and then probably a couple minutes before the show started like 10/15 people showed up so yeah, I think it's you can only put out so much like Facebook and Instagram posts as you can and obviously relying on word of mouth as well. But you know, people will you know, make up their mind last minute, which for a producer, it drives me insane. I sat I tried to not pull out my hair. So when Yeah, when people say I'll be there but that they're not there. I'm like okay, okay, okay, thank you for your interest. But you know that I think that's I think when you have friends that you know will say that they'll come to a show but don't go to your show but they go to another show instead. Like you try and not take it personal because you know you want them to obviously experience other shows experience, the comedy festival, whatever they're interested in, but yet sometimes you can't help but take it personal when they choose something over yours. You know, that you you know when you have those days, you'll kind of like vent to them. And then they'll say, I'll be at your next show. I was just like, how do you know there will be a next day? So yeah, so it's
Patrick Hayes 30:11
no, I think it's a really strong point. And yeah, as, as a producer, we've always had this kind of idea of, we always want to try to encourage audiences to buy early, because then it makes it easy to project box office and all those kinds of points. But it's so funny, not funny. It's kind of actually a bit sad, I guess we were, we were making this headway of going, audiences will buy earlier, we'll keep pushing, and they'll buy a little bit earlier. And then the lock down kind of changed all of that. And now it's so much more, as you said, like people walking up and buying tickets on the night or, you know, they're not sure. How did you manage? Because you so you produce mainly like lineup shows with about six or so comedians performing each night? Was Was that something difficult to kind of get used to? Like, what did you ever have comedians, like have to call in sick last minute or change anything like that, or not feel comfortable performing? Or was that pretty easy to manage?
Kimmie Lovegrove 31:09
That was pretty easy to manage, to manage. Because, like, I'd have like, comedians, you know, rock up on there, like times, but but then, you know, get really like shaky and nervous and not really want to, you know, do a set and I'd then like feel they'll feel bad for having to drop out. But because I have, you know, because comedians, they love to like go over their time. They love to, like, tell more jokes. And so like, if I was ever in a situation where I had like, maybe one or two comedians drop out, I would have like another two or three that can easily fill in that time. No, we can kind of like, do some kind of like, improv thing, which I did have a couple of my artists suggest to me to do like a little improv skit, and like, we got to, that's not how we run my shows, okay, it has to be planned out. Because what if you don't get a laugh, and then you never know who's in the crowd. And then they remember that. If I have Kevin Hart rock up to a show, and if he doesn't love, I'm gonna lose it. So yes, though, to plan ahead, always plan ahead.
Patrick Hayes 32:27
Yeah, I understand. Totally. I don't like I'm not a performer, but I can understand that need of understanding what's going to happen. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, that's a great, I guess that's one of the big strengths of lineup shows is that there is actually a lot of adaptability. And because they're all like individual performers, they can kind of go in and over. Yeah, one of the things that most producers I guess struggle with and like to talk about is funding budgets, getting money in as you enthusiastically nod your head. So with within Comedy Festival, most most producers kind of like work on box office and things like that, is that how you mainly fund your projects? Or do you ever get funding externally or fees or anything like that?
Kimmie Lovegrove 33:13
So I, I relied on ticket sale money. And because you know, if you don't, you don't sell a certain amount of tickets you do like, obviously owe the venue money. So I was trying to like, see if there was like any additional funding that I could get, whether from the comedy festival or from, like an external party, but I always kept missing the deadline, because like you have to, you know, be subscribed to a newsletter, or you have to know the right person, so then they can forward you that information. And so all the funding that I missed out on last year, I'm applying for comedy festival next year, so that way, I do have like a plan in place, in the unlikely chance that I don't sell enough tickets, or I don't have enough people showing up. And I think as much as it is, you know, putting doing like a full festival, obviously, if you don't like plan ahead, on you know, not making like a certain amount, then you know, that's money that will come out of your pocket, even though I did do like kind of like a like lineup show, I had the expectation that you know, some of my artists, maybe be able to send a couple dollars, so I can you know, you know, pay off like a bill or whatever to the venue so that way I can still, you know, return back to that venue and continue on that relationship to do future shows. Yeah, so lucky for me at at the very last crunch time. I was able to get some funding from comedy festival to help pay of the money that I did the venue at that time, which was what was very, very, very, very, very lucky for me. So yeah, it's hard to not only be a performer but to produce and to pay any additional fees if you don't have a full time job. Yeah. So my advice out there for any producers that are listening, marry a sugar daddy.
Patrick Hayes 35:26
Yeah, I think we all we all want to sugar daddy, I think I am on the market myself for a sugar daddy, that would be great. It would definitely make my life a lot more straightforward, which apparently, they're they're out there. But I have never been accosted from one of them yet. But, you know, we can live in hope. Yeah, that's it's also great to mention, like, I guess I've covered this in a couple of other episodes, but like definitely reaching out to the festivals that you're in, and like seeing what kind of support they might be able to help out with it was really great that Comedy Festival could step in and kind of provide some financial aid as well, which a lot of those festivals do that, like Melbourne Fringe, as we've also mentioned, has an amazing amount of support that kind of comes and they have to offer. So yeah, that's a great, great way. And yes, like, box office is always one of the most difficult kind of processes to be in because it's, you're really at the mercy of the audience, really, and what kind of happens, but those expectations and setting them clearly with your artists and everything like that, I think is also that really important step was, especially with a lineup show. That's a great, great steps around that. Yeah, well, I guess one of the we're leading into the last few questions that I have here, but this is a question I like to ask all the guests is, why do you think producers are important to the art and performance sector? What Why do you think they are needed, or we are needed?
Unknown Speaker 36:54
I've noticed with a lot of artists that they have, like, they're not very organised. And so sometimes out their heads are like, all over the spot. And, you know, I think as producers, like, yeah, we're in the game, you know, for for ourselves, so we can help like our friends or family or whatever. But I feel like we are definitely where like spider man, Superman or Batman, where literally the superheroes of the entertainment industry, you know, we'll help you get all all your work, you know, whether it be your papers together, make sure that you're, you know, running on time for your set, you know, we'll be there for like rehearsals, you know, we'll pretty much hold your hand when you need it held and kind of like be as upfront and honest with you, whether it's to do with the way you're communicating or about your set particular particularly, or pretty much anything or everything that you may need help with? And I think, yeah, when people think of producers, they just think of them as like, admin people. And it's just like, No, it's so much more than that. We are literally your Batman, whenever you need someone to shine that Batman signal, and we'll come running, just not after 12am. That's where I draw the line.
Patrick Hayes 38:19
Yeah, that's, that's a good bound. Like, I mean, he probably could set that boundary a little bit earlier. But if you want to do 12am, that's your call. Yeah, I think that's something that's really like, I think that's a really strong idea of going. We are this multi purpose support, superhero that kind of comes in and has to do all these different actions and jump in, I think there is a lot of this, there is a section of the sector that do just see producers as this kind of admin machine that kind of works in that administration. But I honestly the most, most of my last three years have often been more like emotional support for the artist as well and kind of making sure that they feel seen and heard and can work together and try to get across those points, which is just like a whole other skill set. Then there's also just like the other skills like the marketing, the more scheduling the stage management when it's more like I need you here at this time. This were all of those points. But yeah, we really attempt to do it all I won't say we do do it all because it's definitely some times that I've dropped my own personal ball from having to juggle too many at once. But yeah, I think that's a really lovely sentiment of what producers are needed in the art sector moving away from the macro of the art sector into more of your micro. You Kimmy Lovegrove, what is one of the moments that you are the most proud of you're producing?
Kimmie Lovegrove 39:46
You would have to have to be doing a full fledge Comedy Festival and because on the very last week I called COVID. And I was freaking out because not only was the producer but Also the MC. And I had to literally kind of like, okay, who can I pick to kind of like, take reins on producer and as MC. And so I contacted one of the other artists and I said, Hey, I'm down with COVID, can you please, you know, step up and be producer and emcee for the week. And I was doing even though I was completely out of it, I was doing daily check ins with the emcee, making sure everything was going head, making sure all the artists were there on time. And everything was like a huge success. And I was able to make it to the final show. And I asked artists like how they feel being a producer, like they've never produced in their life before. And they said, I can't do it, that's just too much like you complete God as by, you know, doing something that you know, most only a select few of people have, like the gift to do, because not every performer can do it. And to be able to do both, that's just like, I feel like, you know, a, I feel like Elon Musk, like the thats the type of level, I feel like and that's for any performer, whether they be a producer or a manager, or, you know, being not just a performer being something else, because we're not just performance with we wear a tonne of different other hats, and to be recognised, for the different hats that you're wearing. And, you know, to have, because most of the artists I have are men, and for them to recognise me not only as a First Nations, women, comedian, but just solely as a producer. That's killing it. And you know, taking on pretty much a bunch of men and kind of, you know, helping them progress in their career, and giving them the opportunity to tell their story, share their gifts, on a international stage, and as big as Malthouse is, that was definitely like the highlight of my producing career and just to have a show at Malthouse, and as a first year festival, participant as well, like that was like, I don't think anything can top off for first year producer.
Patrick Hayes 42:34
Smash it out of the park and with COVID as well, it was it was such a tricky festival all year. I feel like it was a game of like Whack a Mole almost like it was just show after show after show artist producer. I think Laura and myself and we were producing stuff we had like plans in place in case one of us went down it was one of the most cutthroat against COVID. In the whole point, hopefully next year's Comedy Festival will be a bit more stable in that front, I hope. Well, like one of the other parts that we'd like to do. Because like I think one of the other ways that we want to also ask is around mistakes because Laura and I both talk around how producers often we just learn by doing we don't often have like that kind of guidebook that kind of tells you things. So we all kind of make we all make mistakes. What is one of the I guess it doesn't have to be the biggest mistake. But what is the mistake that you think is like a noteworthy experience where you learn a lot from,
Kimmie Lovegrove 43:33
I think, for me, having to put on a show and to have people in the community and people in the audience to come up to me after a show and just say, Hey, you actually, like for example, I had a show where I had remembered to do everything else except for an acknowledgement of country. And I did not realise that I had forgotten to do that. And so one of my friends kind of pulled me up after the show and said, hey, the show was real good. Except you forgot to do acknowledgement, I can help you like record one or something like that. And to have someone in the community kind of have that conversation with me and not kind of, you know, bite my head off about it. You know, it's that that definitely stuck with me as well. And I think for me, as a professional and as a producer as well, that to have those kind of like calm conversations is like you tell me what that issue is, and I'll immediately rectify it. The next time I put on a show is in my notes. I'll literally create a guide on I guess the do's and don'ts as a producer. For that way if I know someone that's wanting to become a producer, there's like a little kind of like written guideline or a little guide book on my appearances that I'm happy to share. And yeah, like, like you said, like, there's no like guidebook, there's no kind of like written lesson plan on how to be a producer, like we learn one show or one experience at the at a time. But I think it's important to have those open lines of communication and to talk to your producer straightaway, and not hold on to it. Because when you do hold on to it, there's a lot of emotion that's into it. And if you are friends with someone, you know, you don't know if that conversation is coming from them, as you know, as an artist, or as your friend, that is actually hurt. And for me, like, I always want to put my artists first, I always want to make sure that if my artists are my friends that, you know, I want them to feel like respected and acknowledged as the talented individuals that they are. And I think, yeah, definitely, it's very hard when you have to, I guess, mix friends, family and business together, because those lines of communication will get mixed up. But I think if there's something that, you know, you don't really agree with, on the structure of a show, or I've, you know, mispronounce some information, I think that you need to bring it up straight away. Otherwise, there's just going to be too much hurt and emotion. And it's just going to be like, you know, a little roller coaster. So I try and, you know, be as open minded as I can, even if my artists don't have the time or the confidence to tell me as soon as possible. But I think once you get that feedback, then you can ensure that that relationship still is very positive and intact. And when both parties walk away, then no one's feeling, you know, shared or no one's feeling like they've lost a friend or something like that.
Patrick Hayes 47:00
Yeah, I think that's, yeah, I mean, everyone makes mistakes. And I like honestly, I would be shocked if there's ever a producer alive that hasn't unfortunately, forgotten an acknolwedgement. And just in the chaos of everything on the day, especially when you're learning and growing, it can be something that is easily overlooked. But yeah, it's, it's a really beautiful way that someone was able to kind of come and talk to you around that, because sometimes those I guess, within a sense of when I've talked to a lot of young, emerging producers who may not be from community as well, there can be a lot of like, gasoline on that fire really quickly. And even simple little mistakes can often be inflamed into like these major points. But it's really important to note that sometimes it's just, it's a mistake, or just move on, practice better, make sure you have that checklist next time or those coins or have someone else that can help on jump in, especially I know a lot of emerging producers who always get really anxious around acknowledgments and countries when they especially when they're not from community. But you know, there's a lot of research out there, there's a lot of guides that a lot of know about producing but specifically about acknowledgement of country. So I would just say for any of the listeners, there are a lot of resources there of doing recordings, some festivals provide their own recordings as well. But I would always encourage each group to maybe record if you can have your own personal one, or just say it at the start. It's a very, it's a very small gesture of a very big ideal. And it's a very important part of our kind of cultural moving forward in this kind of very difficult landscape within non acknowledgement of land, which I once again, could be a whole other podcast series, or, in fact, a whole 200 years of awful history around that. But yeah, I think that's a more about getting that feedback. And moving forward is a really strong point. A lot of people I think when they get that feedback, and it depends how the feedback is given. But it can be very easy to get into that kind of defensive mode. And then almost what happens is that feedback interaction can become worse than what actually had just happened. Like I've had a few people that are that thing that was a bit wrong. And then suddenly, it's like, well, who asked you anyway, and that kind of debate flies off when it could have just been as simple. Thank you for pointing that out to me. I'll adjust for next time point. And I think that is just a it's a it's a part of the times and learning and kind of growing but yeah, thank you for sharing. I've definitely like I used to work at midsummer festival. And there's a lot of queer politics in that space as well, where sometimes someone's not acknowledged or no work would impact another community and like this kind of domino effect of stuff. So I can definitely understand sometimes you just can't see the trees for the forest kind of environment and it hits you in that blind spot. That's kind of the last main kind of question, but the last I'd like to ask is, this might be a bit of an event, because it's more the question itself is what is one piece of advice you would like to give yourself at the start of your career, but as we kind of talked about, you're still in that kind of first year taking off. So either Do you have a piece of advice that you would like to impart to a younger version of yourself, or ?
Kimmie Lovegrove 50:19
I think, like some piece of advice, I would give my younger self, or this can be for anyone that's thinking of being a producer, don't let anyone kind of like get in your head to say that you need to be linked with another person to, you know, put on a show, because I feel like if you are as passionate about for example, if you're just as passionate about comedy, but you don't have connections with a venue, contact the venue yourself, and have that conversation, face to face, or on Zoom or something like that. Because sometimes if you have a middle person, sometimes that communication between the deal that they've broken with the venue and how they communicate with you can get lost, and you possibly lose some money. And I think, you know, if you feel like, you know, you have that passion and that drive to go out on your own, you don't need anyone to tell you that, you know, you need to be linked to with you know, another business because, you know, you, you've never worked in events, like producing a show has got nothing to do with event planning, it's, you know, you can literally do, you can produce on your own, you really don't need anyone to kind of dim your light. And I think that's very important, as emerging producers that sometimes we get in our head that, you know, we don't have enough experience, and we can't compare ourselves to other people. And I think that's the number one advice, don't compare yourself to other people's success, because then you know, you'll kind of lose yourself in that journey. And I feel like, we need to be as authentic as possible, because there's already so many I want to say like competition, but that there's just so many people that you know, think like you and you know, you want to be, you know, kind of like that point of difference. So I think that's the key advice I'd give to my younger self is don't let anyone dim your light.
Patrick Hayes 52:32
Yeah, like, I think one of the hardest parts of producing is just starting, like you just and really just honestly start if you have a project that you want to do, just start walking or start moving forward. And often things will become clearer as you're going along, ask questions, talk to people, all that stuff, but just do the thing. I think when I was a younger producer, there was this idea in my head that there was these stepping stones that I had to do this path I had to follow. But this what this what this podcast is here for is basically just to say, we don't have that we don't have that apart, there actually doesn't exist, there is not this set ABCD of becoming a producer. And all of us kind of just started and through the weight, the waving the weaving, or the kind of moments of our opportunities, one failed opportunity led to this opportunity that then went to this and then that and then this and then that. It's all just one of the process. So yeah, starting and just moving forward. And definitely don't let anyone dim your light, like just any major producer or major performer or anything started somewhere. They never just was suddenly this amazing headliner of the world. They all started in an improv troupe in a lineup in points and starting so yeah, I think that's a brilliant end note to end on. And that kind of does bring us towards the end of our podcast. So I just want to say thank you so much for your time Kimmie. It's been lovely having this chat with you.
Kimmie Lovegrove 54:02
Thank you. Absolutely. Had a ball talking to you.
Patrick Hayes 54:07
And listeners. Once again, I'll get some links and stuff from Kimmy and we'll include them in the show notes on released this episode. So have a look in there, definitely check out what tell us about like what is the show for fringe that's coming up in about a month's time. So what is it for me?
Kimmie Lovegrove 54:22
So it's a stand up comedy show with some of Victoria's funniest Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander comedians is called Kungari comedy. So in my language that means black swan and it's it definitely no matter where I go in the world, my people and my family will be right behind me and that's pretty much what Kungari comedy is, is bringing black fella comedian comedians straight to the stage. And I'm really excited to you know, do Melbourne Fringe at Trades Hall. I'm really excited to So I hope to see a lot of listeners there.
Patrick Hayes 55:03
Yeah, well we'll have links there. So definitely check it out and I've seen some of the shows and I would definitely recommend 100% Thank you again for Kimmie and listeners. I'll catch you next time.
Laura Milke Garner 55:14
Hey, thanks for listening to the podcast MILKE is your go to for getting your show to the stage. We run industry leading courses, workshops for independent artists and producers covering everything you want to know about producing your show. Want to find out more head to our website milky.com.au That's Milke.com.au.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
